1 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:09,080 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:28,380 --> 00:00:26,670 hello from Sydney Australia Richard 3 00:00:32,339 --> 00:00:28,390 Saunders here with you once again for 4 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:32,349 the skeptic Zone episode number 156 for 5 00:00:37,650 --> 00:00:35,410 the 15th of October yes the skeptic zone 6 00:00:39,090 --> 00:00:37,660 the podcast for science and reason and 7 00:00:42,180 --> 00:00:39,100 we've got some science and reason 8 00:00:43,830 --> 00:00:42,190 heading your way this week in just a 9 00:00:46,020 --> 00:00:43,840 moment I catch up with our reporter 10 00:00:48,540 --> 00:00:46,030 joined Ben amoo who's going to fill you 11 00:00:51,690 --> 00:00:48,550 in a little sneak peek a little sneak 12 00:00:56,420 --> 00:00:51,700 listen to her talk at the upcoming 13 00:00:59,370 --> 00:00:56,430 skeptic camp in Melbourne now head to ww 14 00:01:00,930 --> 00:00:59,380 skeptic appt melbourne calm for more 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:00,940 information and if you're in melbourne 16 00:01:04,649 --> 00:01:02,890 if you're in victoria or if you're in 17 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:04,659 that region of Australia or in fact if 18 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:06,430 you're in Australia at all head for 19 00:01:11,580 --> 00:01:09,700 Melbourne and head to skeptic camp can 20 00:01:14,130 --> 00:01:11,590 be a fabulous day where you can meet a 21 00:01:16,830 --> 00:01:14,140 lot of the skeptic zone team including 22 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:16,840 our reporter Maynard oh that should be 23 00:01:21,539 --> 00:01:19,990 great fun now after that dr. Reggie dr. 24 00:01:24,149 --> 00:01:21,549 Rachel done up and I catch up with a 25 00:01:27,810 --> 00:01:24,159 good friend of ours Lawrence loon who 26 00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:27,820 recently had a show here in Australia on 27 00:01:34,980 --> 00:01:32,710 me on the ABC TV called unbelievable now 28 00:01:38,010 --> 00:01:34,990 Lawrence Isaiah an entertainer a 29 00:01:39,779 --> 00:01:38,020 comedian and he's recently been doing a 30 00:01:42,719 --> 00:01:39,789 big tour we have a little chat about 31 00:01:45,899 --> 00:01:42,729 that and the reaction to his show which 32 00:01:48,179 --> 00:01:45,909 was quite skeptical the show that is not 33 00:01:50,940 --> 00:01:48,189 the reaction well some reaction was 34 00:01:53,279 --> 00:01:50,950 skeptical I guess and after that is a 35 00:01:57,719 --> 00:01:53,289 little clip of me being interviewed on 36 00:01:59,699 --> 00:01:57,729 Sydney radio about spoon bending yes 37 00:02:01,260 --> 00:01:59,709 after all these years there are still 38 00:02:03,959 --> 00:02:01,270 people out there want to know about 39 00:02:06,809 --> 00:02:03,969 spoon bending well I give a little 40 00:02:10,020 --> 00:02:06,819 insight about my take on on spoon 41 00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:10,030 bending for the Sydney radio audience 42 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:12,790 and to wrap up the show dr. Richie 43 00:02:20,610 --> 00:02:16,930 reports dr. rachey was the guest on the 44 00:02:25,630 --> 00:02:20,620 mamma mia TV chat show here on cable TV 45 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:25,640 in Australia and that is now 46 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:28,850 available on YouTube you can watch dr. 47 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:31,130 80 or you can listen to this which is 48 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:32,930 the audio from it or both if you so 49 00:02:39,730 --> 00:02:37,130 desire if you want to see dr. Reggie on 50 00:02:44,050 --> 00:02:39,740 the the program talking about 51 00:02:48,550 --> 00:02:44,060 vaccinations just head for wwm amemiya 52 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:48,560 onward calm I you and follow the links 53 00:02:55,090 --> 00:02:52,010 to show 11 now dr. 'he has had a very 54 00:02:58,540 --> 00:02:55,100 tiring couple of weeks responding to all 55 00:03:01,180 --> 00:02:58,550 the posts to her blog about vaccinations 56 00:03:03,790 --> 00:03:01,190 at mama mia a lot of the flying monkeys 57 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:03,800 as we call them the D&E vaxors have been 58 00:03:07,330 --> 00:03:05,810 swooping down on that blog and Rachel's 59 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:07,340 been doing her best to battle those 60 00:03:13,479 --> 00:03:11,090 comments a very moving dr. Rachel 61 00:03:15,699 --> 00:03:13,489 reports because we also hear from Tony 62 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:15,709 and David McCaffrey who I'm sure you 63 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:20,570 will recall lost their baby in 2009 to 64 00:03:26,250 --> 00:03:23,209 whooping cough a very important doctor 65 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:26,260 'he this week but right now let's say 66 00:03:33,009 --> 00:03:30,290 let's play a little little interview a 67 00:03:38,020 --> 00:03:33,019 little catch up with Joe Benna mu about 68 00:03:40,060 --> 00:03:38,030 skeptic amp skeptic appt Melbourne is 69 00:03:42,819 --> 00:03:40,070 coming up everybody I'm sorry I won't be 70 00:03:45,069 --> 00:03:42,829 able to be there myself but somebody who 71 00:03:47,140 --> 00:03:45,079 will be there is Joe benomyl hi Joe 72 00:03:48,670 --> 00:03:47,150 Richard now we're just about to go into 73 00:03:50,110 --> 00:03:48,680 a skeptics waiting very serious stuff 74 00:03:52,949 --> 00:03:50,120 but you were just mentioning that you're 75 00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:52,959 looking forward to skeptic am I am I 76 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:55,310 really wish i was going cuz your talk 77 00:04:00,160 --> 00:03:57,410 sounds like the highlight the highlight 78 00:04:02,289 --> 00:04:00,170 of the day life no lie what are you 79 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:02,299 going to be speaking about so i'm gonna 80 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:04,130 be giving a talk all about history of 81 00:04:08,860 --> 00:04:07,010 colonic irrigation enemies and just 82 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:08,870 about anything to do with quackery and 83 00:04:14,380 --> 00:04:11,570 bombs insert your own jokes here yes 84 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:14,390 please do and it's called getting to the 85 00:04:19,390 --> 00:04:16,310 bottom of its called getting to the 86 00:04:20,860 --> 00:04:19,400 bottom of colonics you see folks this is 87 00:04:22,890 --> 00:04:20,870 why if you're in melbourne you should 88 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:22,900 definitely go to skip the camp 89 00:04:27,390 --> 00:04:25,150 yes you should absolutely at last I 90 00:04:29,969 --> 00:04:27,400 heard from from the organizers I think 91 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:29,979 they've got 118 or 120 people registered 92 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:35,289 oh it's a free event and I think the 93 00:04:40,650 --> 00:04:37,210 organizers are done a great job we had a 94 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:40,660 wonderful skepta campus in China 22nd of 95 00:04:47,570 --> 00:04:44,289 opportunity to go yep and dr. H she's 96 00:04:50,189 --> 00:04:47,580 going down I'm going down as you said 97 00:04:52,110 --> 00:04:50,199 who else I think yeah quite over Sydney 98 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:52,120 people but i think you mean just go on 99 00:04:56,430 --> 00:04:54,490 to the skeptic enemy I know Oh may not 100 00:04:58,230 --> 00:04:56,440 going mine are delayed up and I can talk 101 00:05:01,670 --> 00:04:58,240 about bottoms and those sorts of things 102 00:05:04,710 --> 00:05:01,680 I believe he recently went on a trip 103 00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:04,720 folks go to skipping camp in Melbourne 104 00:05:11,159 --> 00:05:07,120 and find out more thank you Joe here it 105 00:05:13,950 --> 00:05:11,169 did so there you go folks don't miss 106 00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:13,960 skepta camp if you're in Melbourne all 107 00:05:19,129 --> 00:05:17,080 right it's time to ice it back oh I'm 108 00:05:22,350 --> 00:05:19,139 better from my cold by the way all on 109 00:05:24,779 --> 00:05:22,360 completely healthy oh yeah ready to go 110 00:05:27,710 --> 00:05:24,789 I'm so healthier fact I think I'm going 111 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:27,720 to run downstairs and have a cup of a 112 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:31,570 cup of send your suggestions on a 113 00:05:53,540 --> 00:05:34,770 postcard or a tweet and let you enjoy 114 00:05:58,470 --> 00:05:55,800 well folks we interviewed Lawrence 115 00:06:00,030 --> 00:05:58,480 learned a few months back on the 116 00:06:01,650 --> 00:06:00,040 skeptics own podcast I'm delighted to 117 00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:01,660 say up caught up with Lawrence again 118 00:06:06,780 --> 00:06:04,510 he's in Sydney for his show I'm here in 119 00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:06,790 Newtown having an on with dr. hei dr. G 120 00:06:12,150 --> 00:06:08,920 I of course if there's a nom I'm here 121 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:12,160 and we're delighted to see Lawrence and 122 00:06:16,740 --> 00:06:14,110 you're on a big to at the moment yeah 123 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:16,750 yeah I'm cheering my life Sam comedy 124 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:18,610 show I'm just called Lawrence Lin wants 125 00:06:23,010 --> 00:06:21,250 a jet pack cuz really don't we all will 126 00:06:24,750 --> 00:06:23,020 promise them where are they and yeah 127 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:24,760 I've been taking out around the country 128 00:06:29,910 --> 00:06:26,530 and just go back in the UK with the show 129 00:06:32,220 --> 00:06:29,920 as well so how how many months or weeks 130 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:32,230 you you do know we're reaching a towel 131 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:35,710 em now i'm doing a sydney on friday 132 00:06:39,690 --> 00:06:37,210 night which is sold out and then I'm up 133 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:39,700 in Brisbane for two shows on the sunday 134 00:06:44,820 --> 00:06:42,490 and then that's it for now I might be 135 00:06:46,860 --> 00:06:44,830 going down to Tasmania and with those 136 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:46,870 dates out yet but I'm I've been on the 137 00:06:52,140 --> 00:06:48,970 road living out of a suitcase for about 138 00:06:53,610 --> 00:06:52,150 three months now oh yes yeah between it 139 00:06:56,100 --> 00:06:53,620 will be good to be exploited in my own 140 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:56,110 bed my own do now now i'm sure a lot of 141 00:07:01,140 --> 00:06:57,610 our australian viewers would have 142 00:07:04,170 --> 00:07:01,150 enjoyed your recent TV series of course 143 00:07:06,810 --> 00:07:04,180 what was the reaction by and large to 144 00:07:08,550 --> 00:07:06,820 that series unbelievable unbelievable 145 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:08,560 yeah yeah and it was unbelievable so 146 00:07:12,690 --> 00:07:10,630 that's the name of the show that's the 147 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:12,700 reaction up it's been great i I think 148 00:07:16,890 --> 00:07:15,010 the world of the Internet has found it 149 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:16,900 as well some good I've got a lot of 150 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:19,210 messages from people from overseas as 151 00:07:23,550 --> 00:07:20,950 well we've seen this show you know to 152 00:07:25,530 --> 00:07:23,560 skeptically enhanced I guess Comedy 153 00:07:27,900 --> 00:07:25,540 Series yeah it's not on my view or 154 00:07:30,330 --> 00:07:27,910 YouTube more sneakily somewhere ah it 155 00:07:32,580 --> 00:07:30,340 was an idea but ABC puts it up for a 156 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:32,590 short time only yeah but you know a lot 157 00:07:36,420 --> 00:07:34,570 of cheeky people have you know spread of 158 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:36,430 fire or white on the internet and of 159 00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:37,510 course we don't officially condone that 160 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:40,240 of course but there you go I know I do 161 00:07:46,469 --> 00:07:43,090 I love people to see no I don't I don't 162 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:46,479 condone that I condone people watching 163 00:07:53,969 --> 00:07:48,910 the show how they get it is that it's 164 00:07:56,339 --> 00:07:53,979 not up to me yeah so people have really 165 00:07:58,260 --> 00:07:56,349 enjoyed the show for more different 166 00:08:00,480 --> 00:07:58,270 quarters I mean these were six episodes 167 00:08:02,550 --> 00:08:00,490 on all sorts of different themes as i 168 00:08:04,529 --> 00:08:02,560 always get emails from people who are 169 00:08:06,270 --> 00:08:04,539 interested in like UFOs or interested in 170 00:08:09,210 --> 00:08:06,280 skepticism or interested in ghost 171 00:08:11,219 --> 00:08:09,220 hunting I get emails from even magicians 172 00:08:13,890 --> 00:08:11,229 really like for Sherlock so I didn't 173 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:13,900 episode all about the methods behind 174 00:08:19,559 --> 00:08:16,930 magic without giving away any tricks 175 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:19,569 yeah which which is what magicians most 176 00:08:25,230 --> 00:08:21,250 compliment to me on because I didn't 177 00:08:28,620 --> 00:08:25,240 expose tricks behind magic but I gave an 178 00:08:29,850 --> 00:08:28,630 account of how magic works and for them 179 00:08:33,329 --> 00:08:29,860 because they they have the most 180 00:08:35,130 --> 00:08:33,339 secretive of the Arts so yes um their 181 00:08:37,050 --> 00:08:35,140 tricks and their methods are there live 182 00:08:39,060 --> 00:08:37,060 legal in the moat it's not as someone 183 00:08:41,130 --> 00:08:39,070 who's a fan of magic and also a bit of a 184 00:08:42,449 --> 00:08:41,140 hobby practitioner myself that's the 185 00:08:44,940 --> 00:08:42,459 last thing I want to do was to do one of 186 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:44,950 those horrible exposure type shows you 187 00:08:49,410 --> 00:08:47,410 know she would ask you yeah yeah but 188 00:08:52,019 --> 00:08:49,420 having said that I because I know enough 189 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:52,029 magic I could carefully construct the 190 00:08:55,590 --> 00:08:53,890 structure of this particular episode 2 B 191 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:55,600 like a magic trick where you know you 192 00:09:00,660 --> 00:08:57,970 suck up the audience in and much like a 193 00:09:02,639 --> 00:09:00,670 con artists trick they go along for the 194 00:09:04,590 --> 00:09:02,649 ride you teach them all the things about 195 00:09:06,090 --> 00:09:04,600 you know misdirection and you know 196 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:06,100 attention blindness and things like that 197 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:08,350 and then use the same techniques that 198 00:09:11,610 --> 00:09:09,610 you've been teaching them all along too 199 00:09:13,350 --> 00:09:11,620 then trick them at the very end yeah so 200 00:09:15,449 --> 00:09:13,360 it was a bit of a multi-layered episode 201 00:09:17,490 --> 00:09:15,459 that I was quite proud of I think I 202 00:09:18,630 --> 00:09:17,500 enjoyed that most of all I'd enjoyed it 203 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:18,640 all the episodes of course all 204 00:09:23,519 --> 00:09:20,890 fascinating hair that one and you did a 205 00:09:25,759 --> 00:09:23,529 seance which was realized yeah i did a 206 00:09:27,919 --> 00:09:25,769 silence on television and 207 00:09:30,439 --> 00:09:27,929 that's not new for documentaries on TV 208 00:09:33,350 --> 00:09:30,449 I'm sure there's a lot of skeptics who 209 00:09:36,829 --> 00:09:33,360 also make shows with seances be returned 210 00:09:38,749 --> 00:09:36,839 Wiseman dude yeah as far as I know I not 211 00:09:40,189 --> 00:09:38,759 sure I have to look around but I think 212 00:09:42,530 --> 00:09:40,199 my one is the only one that's not a 213 00:09:44,090 --> 00:09:42,540 gimmicked seance and by that we're not 214 00:09:46,579 --> 00:09:44,100 using the parlor tricks of the Victorian 215 00:09:49,549 --> 00:09:46,589 era with you know fishing wire and you 216 00:09:51,049 --> 00:09:49,559 know fake ectoplasm dummy hands and 217 00:09:52,460 --> 00:09:51,059 people walking around in the dark 218 00:09:55,009 --> 00:09:52,470 dressed in black or anything like that 219 00:09:57,259 --> 00:09:55,019 it was a purely psychological science 220 00:09:59,449 --> 00:09:57,269 meaning if you can create an environment 221 00:10:01,009 --> 00:09:59,459 where people were so impressionable and 222 00:10:03,199 --> 00:10:01,019 wanted to believe in something would 223 00:10:05,210 --> 00:10:03,209 they really start to feel the sensations 224 00:10:07,460 --> 00:10:05,220 perceive the sensations that would go 225 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:07,470 along with the sounds despite this this 226 00:10:11,660 --> 00:10:10,290 haunted house not being haunted and they 227 00:10:13,249 --> 00:10:11,670 were not add for that actually being a 228 00:10:15,109 --> 00:10:13,259 ghost and you know I did the 229 00:10:17,329 --> 00:10:15,119 scientifically I made sure that there 230 00:10:21,979 --> 00:10:17,339 was the house isn't haunted I had an 231 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:21,989 exorcist and a shaman exercises spirits 232 00:10:25,249 --> 00:10:23,850 so if some case on said to me on that 233 00:10:29,660 --> 00:10:25,259 but maybe the house was already ordered 234 00:10:31,699 --> 00:10:29,670 to begin with i cleansed it where was 235 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:31,709 that building that was prompted sydney 236 00:10:36,919 --> 00:10:34,170 in this beautiful old house by this 237 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:36,929 lovely couple who have all these amazing 238 00:10:41,419 --> 00:10:39,569 antiques like every room in the house 239 00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:41,429 was almost like a different period start 240 00:10:44,329 --> 00:10:42,240 because they collected all these 241 00:10:48,169 --> 00:10:44,339 antiques so of course that night it was 242 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:48,179 the scariest reappear someplace I mean 243 00:10:52,759 --> 00:10:50,610 the gate itself when the gate opened in 244 00:10:56,299 --> 00:10:52,769 person with such a blood-curdling sort 245 00:10:57,980 --> 00:10:56,309 of screech my art department was like we 246 00:11:00,530 --> 00:10:57,990 don't have to be here this house does it 247 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:00,540 is so we're scared and we're just this 248 00:11:04,519 --> 00:11:02,730 is the daytime so so we found the 249 00:11:06,260 --> 00:11:04,529 perfect place to set up the conditions 250 00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:06,270 for 251 00:11:09,980 --> 00:11:08,310 official silence that was a fascinating 252 00:11:12,830 --> 00:11:09,990 episode and of course this series that 253 00:11:15,260 --> 00:11:12,840 you did really saw you travel far and 254 00:11:16,540 --> 00:11:15,270 wide yeah because we bumped into each 255 00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:16,550 other when you were filming in Las Vegas 256 00:11:23,270 --> 00:11:20,940 that's right Tenet's nice yes without 257 00:11:25,310 --> 00:11:23,280 good friend bannerchek who is driving 258 00:11:27,260 --> 00:11:25,320 you around blindfolded there's a really 259 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:27,270 great because you told me about it and I 260 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:28,410 heard about it at the time but when I 261 00:11:32,540 --> 00:11:30,810 saw it on the on your show I was just 262 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:32,550 laughing so much because you were really 263 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:34,410 looking scared I was I was absolutely 264 00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:37,050 scared I mean I i I've followed by 265 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:38,640 Jeff's career for a while so I know that 266 00:11:42,650 --> 00:11:40,530 easy is a top-grade Mentalist and I mean 267 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:42,660 I was in good hands but what he did was 268 00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:46,110 a blindfold drive and despite knowing it 269 00:11:49,580 --> 00:11:47,160 was a trick I was still terrified 270 00:11:52,460 --> 00:11:49,590 because this guy you Lucas still has a 271 00:11:55,070 --> 00:11:52,470 blindfold over his face this is a potato 272 00:11:56,930 --> 00:11:55,080 I capitate and i also had hands yeah 273 00:11:58,760 --> 00:11:56,940 yeah he had a spanish dollars or 274 00:12:00,740 --> 00:11:58,770 something pesos I'm much will be called 275 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:00,750 a boost they have you had him gaffa take 276 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:03,090 over his eyes now people always ask me 277 00:12:06,410 --> 00:12:04,710 it's a number one question which is how 278 00:12:07,820 --> 00:12:06,420 did he do it and the fact is I don't 279 00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:07,830 know yeah and actually I don't really 280 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:09,360 care to know i love the fact that i 281 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:11,490 don't know how he does it I know that no 282 00:12:15,620 --> 00:12:13,890 it's not psychic powers and he insists 283 00:12:17,330 --> 00:12:15,630 it's not psychic powers and so we all 284 00:12:18,830 --> 00:12:17,340 know it's a trick but it's just a damn 285 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:18,840 good trick and he's a terrifying 286 00:12:24,110 --> 00:12:22,530 magician it was it was our gas attack 287 00:12:26,540 --> 00:12:24,120 the asked us to bring our own capitate 288 00:12:30,110 --> 00:12:26,550 wow he said I think I want to do this 289 00:12:32,270 --> 00:12:30,120 you know right well drive thing he's not 290 00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:32,280 from vegas right off from vegas so we we 291 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:34,649 hired a car so 292 00:12:38,970 --> 00:12:37,330 car of his only was it he didn't have 293 00:12:41,070 --> 00:12:38,980 like a trick remote control power we 294 00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:41,080 literally hide that car just before the 295 00:12:46,590 --> 00:12:44,110 interview and then just before we go 296 00:12:48,540 --> 00:12:46,600 into the car we had to ring up the ABC 297 00:12:54,329 --> 00:12:48,550 and speak to the legal department 298 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:54,339 because I could imagine that 299 00:12:59,340 --> 00:12:57,250 conversation yeah I would love to hear 300 00:13:00,329 --> 00:12:59,350 what that conversation was like I'm sure 301 00:13:02,820 --> 00:13:00,339 they would have said you know are you a 302 00:13:07,590 --> 00:13:02,830 practitioner of rifle driving have you 303 00:13:08,699 --> 00:13:07,600 ever damaged property or I'll be like to 304 00:13:11,010 --> 00:13:08,709 take this guy out he's going to be 305 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:11,020 blindfolded driving the other line watch 306 00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:13,570 yeah what I don't think that's in the 307 00:13:18,090 --> 00:13:16,510 book here yeah well the funny thing is 308 00:13:20,430 --> 00:13:18,100 at the very end of the episode just as a 309 00:13:23,010 --> 00:13:20,440 gag at the end last bit was obviously 310 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:23,020 just setup for a joke which was I take 311 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:24,970 panacek blindfold driving when he was in 312 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:27,850 Australia it was doing a lecture for 313 00:13:32,610 --> 00:13:30,490 magicians and so it was such a good 314 00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:32,620 sport to get into a car with me with my 315 00:13:36,180 --> 00:13:34,480 blindfold and of course the car smashed 316 00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:36,190 and it was smashed with a stunt person 317 00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:37,720 and we put the Sun person in the credits 318 00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:39,910 just to prove that this ok this is these 319 00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:41,620 bits this bits like setup for a joke 320 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:43,480 whereas everything else happened was for 321 00:13:48,810 --> 00:13:46,180 real yeah and what the interesting thing 322 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:48,820 was ironically the implication meant 323 00:13:53,310 --> 00:13:51,310 that the ABC lawyers were more happy 324 00:13:56,990 --> 00:13:53,320 with someone else risking my life than 325 00:13:58,940 --> 00:13:57,000 they were with me risking services 326 00:14:00,650 --> 00:13:58,950 well I think the gag work really well it 327 00:14:02,510 --> 00:14:00,660 was a wonderful ending ending to that 328 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:02,520 episode and better check acted 329 00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:04,890 beautifully yeah they really do banachek 330 00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,990 at the very end it was like he was 331 00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:08,880 giving me a million-dollar challenge you 332 00:14:13,070 --> 00:14:10,950 and then obviously I crashed the car 333 00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:13,080 because I can't fly paltrow so that was 334 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:14,820 just a joke yet so I'm really pleased 335 00:14:19,790 --> 00:14:17,610 that you've had mostly positive reaction 336 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:19,800 i would say to the co series but you 337 00:14:23,690 --> 00:14:21,690 would have had some much oh yeah yeah 338 00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:23,700 that's had some you know nasty emails 339 00:14:27,110 --> 00:14:25,380 and I've had you know had some criticism 340 00:14:29,270 --> 00:14:27,120 which I often write back to as well and 341 00:14:32,390 --> 00:14:29,280 and there's other like spirit stuff 342 00:14:34,610 --> 00:14:32,400 which I just ignores as well but yeah 343 00:14:38,810 --> 00:14:34,620 there was one person on Twitter who said 344 00:14:40,670 --> 00:14:38,820 that if they saw my smug hipster face in 345 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:40,680 the street they would smash it and I 346 00:14:46,610 --> 00:14:42,330 think I was more grief by the label of 347 00:14:49,730 --> 00:14:46,620 hipster that I was yeah thank God a 348 00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:49,740 skeptic say that's you doing well I'm my 349 00:14:54,950 --> 00:14:52,380 Twitter followers would know them just 350 00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:54,960 last night another show of the one went 351 00:14:59,450 --> 00:14:57,720 to end it was being skeptical and most 352 00:15:00,890 --> 00:14:59,460 of the skeptical of the comments on 353 00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:00,900 Twitter were fun and interesting and 354 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:02,550 when people but there's one person who 355 00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:04,050 just would really over border their 356 00:15:07,850 --> 00:15:05,910 abuses and their insults but you know 357 00:15:10,250 --> 00:15:07,860 yeah I guess there are just people like 358 00:15:12,350 --> 00:15:10,260 that out there well I mean I mean from 359 00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:12,360 from all stripes from you know if 360 00:15:15,770 --> 00:15:13,710 they're there are people out there who 361 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:15,780 you know it can express through the 362 00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:20,130 enemy of the Internet anything they want 363 00:15:23,630 --> 00:15:21,420 people can just say anything on the 364 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:23,640 Internet essentially the Internet's all 365 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:25,050 about people of things or hate things 366 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:26,370 things that are in the middle button 367 00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,770 here no talks better I guess yeah but 368 00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:30,480 skirts you know what cats will always 369 00:15:33,650 --> 00:15:32,190 out rate both psychics and skeptics on 370 00:15:35,329 --> 00:15:33,660 television maybe you and I should get 371 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:35,339 together one day and create a new show 372 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:37,530 about skeptical cats get to also like a 373 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:39,690 cat or psychic cats look head ahead they 374 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:41,010 go 375 00:15:44,450 --> 00:15:42,930 I think that would be called a cage 376 00:15:46,220 --> 00:15:44,460 fight that would be quiet I don't think 377 00:15:47,870 --> 00:15:46,230 of it that would be that would be an 378 00:15:51,110 --> 00:15:47,880 interesting show dividing that would be 379 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:51,120 so uh any big plans for the future knee 380 00:15:56,350 --> 00:15:53,310 things on the horizon that day you're 381 00:15:59,300 --> 00:15:56,360 considering i think i'm speaking at a 382 00:16:01,730 --> 00:15:59,310 skeptics mini convention later on this 383 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:01,740 year and there's a birthday it's my 384 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:04,650 birthday 19th november yes i'll be 385 00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:06,570 taking on your birthday coming to my 386 00:16:11,420 --> 00:16:09,600 birthday not because it's the convention 387 00:16:13,490 --> 00:16:11,430 because it's rachel's birthday yeah I 388 00:16:15,890 --> 00:16:13,500 wanted the co-hosts of gac which is the 389 00:16:19,130 --> 00:16:15,900 global atheist conference next year in a 390 00:16:21,170 --> 00:16:19,140 in Melbourne but in turn that that's 391 00:16:23,060 --> 00:16:21,180 that's that's why I guess more 392 00:16:25,070 --> 00:16:23,070 scientific endeavors but there's there's 393 00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:25,080 a lot more civ comedy coming coming down 394 00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:27,300 the pipe work as well in in terms of 395 00:16:32,420 --> 00:16:29,760 both we know Cleo telly and hope you 396 00:16:34,670 --> 00:16:32,430 live on stage as well plus some short 397 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:34,680 films and I've been in a heist film I 398 00:16:38,630 --> 00:16:36,450 just got back from filming in Canberra 399 00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:38,640 know being a criminal on film which is 400 00:16:44,780 --> 00:16:43,470 this funny wow so that's that that's me 401 00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:44,790 completely against type as well and I 402 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:45,990 saw you on the internet recently 403 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:48,810 chatting to a scientist yes yes yes I've 404 00:16:52,780 --> 00:16:50,910 been promoting science and knowledge 405 00:16:55,220 --> 00:16:52,790 with the help of Griffith University 406 00:16:56,420 --> 00:16:55,230 they've got a bit of a campaign to you 407 00:16:59,150 --> 00:16:56,430 know get more people into science 408 00:17:01,370 --> 00:16:59,160 research so I've been helping them by 409 00:17:04,100 --> 00:17:01,380 filming short interviews with their 410 00:17:06,140 --> 00:17:04,110 scientists including some commercials 411 00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:06,150 just to promote the idea of knowledge 412 00:17:10,370 --> 00:17:07,829 and it's quite interesting because these 413 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:10,380 commercials are you know your your your 414 00:17:17,449 --> 00:17:14,130 sexy youth orientated um University ads 415 00:17:19,069 --> 00:17:17,459 these are ads which we have you know 416 00:17:21,060 --> 00:17:19,079 quite leading scientists actually 417 00:17:23,910 --> 00:17:21,070 talking about what they do 418 00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:23,920 kind of a different spin for like an ad 419 00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:25,990 for University yeah because it's very 420 00:17:30,270 --> 00:17:28,000 much focused on research and very much 421 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:30,280 focused on you know achievements in 422 00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:32,530 scientific knowledge bday you know 423 00:17:36,290 --> 00:17:34,720 finding a cure for mental area or you 424 00:17:39,420 --> 00:17:36,300 know looking at heart disease or 425 00:17:41,370 --> 00:17:39,430 migraines in norfolk island by studying 426 00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:41,380 the genetic population so that's been 427 00:17:46,380 --> 00:17:44,740 quite fun to do as well a varied career 428 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:46,390 you're having at the moment lawrence 429 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:48,250 it's really interesting if our listeners 430 00:17:51,780 --> 00:17:50,290 want to check out your work what's the 431 00:17:54,810 --> 00:17:51,790 best place they can have the best place 432 00:17:56,700 --> 00:17:54,820 would be Lauren saloon com that's a my 433 00:17:59,850 --> 00:17:56,710 name my Sunnah is very under your spell 434 00:18:03,030 --> 00:17:59,860 so bear with me it's Lawrence laew for 435 00:18:07,470 --> 00:18:03,040 starters and lawr ence and learn as le 436 00:18:10,740 --> 00:18:07,480 UNG calm and yeah so thats basically has 437 00:18:13,170 --> 00:18:10,750 all my travails both in a comedy and you 438 00:18:14,550 --> 00:18:13,180 know making entertaining lives in 439 00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:14,560 turning approach to psychology because i 440 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:16,960 like to kind of teach people about how 441 00:18:21,950 --> 00:18:19,090 we all see the world but from scientific 442 00:18:24,990 --> 00:18:21,960 life people can have a go and google 443 00:18:27,060 --> 00:18:25,000 unbelievable ABC maybe or unbelievable 444 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:27,070 teenie see what they find i'm sure it's 445 00:18:31,650 --> 00:18:28,810 on you too i'm sure some 50 your odds 446 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:31,660 uploaded the whole series yeah it's got 447 00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,370 unbelievable it's it's I'm sure it's 448 00:18:36,570 --> 00:18:35,200 very easy to find because the volume of 449 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:36,580 emails I've been getting about the show 450 00:18:40,380 --> 00:18:37,930 I know people from around the Lord and 451 00:18:42,330 --> 00:18:40,390 founder that's good Lawrence's choose 452 00:18:46,650 --> 00:18:42,340 your own adventure is available on catch 453 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:46,660 up 72 yahoo television yeah in australia 454 00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:48,490 yes you can watch it for free there 455 00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:50,110 that's interesting while you're there 456 00:18:55,910 --> 00:18:52,940 you can watch the last episode of the 12 457 00:18:57,710 --> 00:18:55,920 you're a good luck to the the do you 458 00:18:59,000 --> 00:18:57,720 have any predictions of who you thinks 459 00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:59,010 are you know that say who you think said 460 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:01,500 aware well I don't know yet about that 461 00:19:06,049 --> 00:19:02,970 way this is the thing is that the show 462 00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:06,059 gets we have ten contestants nine asa 463 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:08,580 nine now because one was eliminated on 464 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:11,370 the last episode and over the next 465 00:19:16,940 --> 00:19:13,410 week's we eat all that down to three all 466 00:19:18,530 --> 00:19:16,950 right then it's Australia votes you ring 467 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:18,540 up for your favorite easy and then 468 00:19:23,180 --> 00:19:20,010 that's how the winners chosen somewhere 469 00:19:25,549 --> 00:19:23,190 I have no idea well it might be me for 470 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:25,559 all I know is I should surely the 471 00:19:28,310 --> 00:19:27,210 psychics know who is gonna win did that 472 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:28,320 they have to make predictions they do 473 00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:30,450 addictions and we see how that goes 474 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:34,080 that's really funny oh yeah well good 475 00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:36,330 luck on the one yeah and good luck on 476 00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:38,370 the repeats of the unbeliever one maybe 477 00:19:43,669 --> 00:19:40,940 we should have owned strays best sketch 478 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:43,679 show you how to skip that's fitted with 479 00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:48,090 the panel of suture now that's something 480 00:19:57,550 --> 00:19:50,070 that would be fun to watch that would be 481 00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:00,890 you're listening to the skeptic zone I'm 482 00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:04,380 Brian Dunning from sceptile calm when 483 00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:06,750 I'm not tuned into the skeptic zone I'm 484 00:20:11,420 --> 00:20:09,600 recording thus kept I'd podcast doing 485 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:11,430 what I can to further knowledge by 486 00:20:15,740 --> 00:20:13,250 blasting away the widespread 487 00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:15,750 pseudo-sciences that infect popular 488 00:20:20,660 --> 00:20:18,600 culture I've also compiled a 40-minute 489 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:20,670 educational video on critical thinking 490 00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:23,910 called here be dragons at here be 491 00:20:30,620 --> 00:20:27,600 dragons movie.com I hope you check those 492 00:20:38,770 --> 00:20:30,630 out and I hope you enjoy the skeptic 493 00:20:44,740 --> 00:20:42,190 recently I was the guest on ABC radio 494 00:20:48,970 --> 00:20:44,750 here in Sydney with Robbie buck where 495 00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:48,980 the topic of spoon bending came up yes I 496 00:20:53,890 --> 00:20:51,230 know it's an old story but you know what 497 00:20:57,130 --> 00:20:53,900 i really like spoon bending and so is a 498 00:21:00,990 --> 00:20:57,140 good lesson to me on how people can be 499 00:21:12,190 --> 00:21:01,000 fooled so here's my take on sydney radio 500 00:21:15,950 --> 00:21:14,480 yes you may recall last night we were 501 00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:15,960 talking about life's little mysteries 502 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:19,110 and you're a girl's name was was brought 503 00:21:24,340 --> 00:21:20,850 up in the conversation this the the 504 00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:24,350 famous psychic from the 70s and 80s 505 00:21:28,670 --> 00:21:26,340 think he's still around isn't he was 506 00:21:32,030 --> 00:21:28,680 friends with Michael Jackson for for 507 00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:32,040 quite a while and via the fine art of 508 00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:35,480 spoon bending that he was a master of 509 00:21:42,410 --> 00:21:37,710 others have followed in his footsteps 510 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:42,420 and somehow managed to to bend spoons 511 00:21:48,650 --> 00:21:45,890 using nothing but mind power it seems 512 00:21:50,420 --> 00:21:48,660 somebody who has developed that skill 513 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:50,430 himself is Richard Saunders he's the 514 00:21:53,420 --> 00:21:51,510 vice president of the New South Wales 515 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:53,430 branch of the Australian skeptics 516 00:21:57,650 --> 00:21:55,290 Association how are they Richard hello 517 00:22:00,050 --> 00:21:57,660 good evening you've met a few spoons in 518 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:00,060 your time have you I do and strangely 519 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:02,610 enough I used the power of my mind my 520 00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:05,850 mind is directing my fingers the mind is 521 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:10,320 a wonderful thing and tonight absolutely 522 00:22:14,060 --> 00:22:11,940 free I think most other radio stations 523 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:14,070 would charge listeners for this kind of 524 00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:16,290 information being the ABC we have only 525 00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:18,630 charged you ate sense of possibility 526 00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:22,980 inflation a day for this knowledge we 527 00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:25,080 are turning the the listeners of the 528 00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:27,660 evening show into psychics I would like 529 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:30,630 to thank George who I did very hurriedly 530 00:22:35,450 --> 00:22:33,330 text in the number three when a few 531 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:35,460 moments ago I was asking you to do tap 532 00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:37,650 your psychic powers and see if you could 533 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:39,840 imagine what number it was that I was 534 00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:42,930 thinking of it wasn't three George it 535 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:44,520 was seven so it means that you should be 536 00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:46,050 listening it ever so closely to this 537 00:22:51,470 --> 00:22:48,750 because which it is about to to take you 538 00:22:54,380 --> 00:22:51,480 through the wonderful world of spoon 539 00:22:58,820 --> 00:22:54,390 bending and turn you into a bona fide 540 00:22:59,960 --> 00:22:58,830 thoroughbred psychic tonight how have 541 00:23:01,850 --> 00:22:59,970 you been involved with the the 542 00:23:03,530 --> 00:23:01,860 Australian skeptics Association Richard 543 00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:03,540 I've been pretty heavily involved for 544 00:23:08,990 --> 00:23:07,200 about 10 11 years but before then it was 545 00:23:10,970 --> 00:23:09,000 always a great interest of mine dating 546 00:23:14,180 --> 00:23:10,980 right back to when I was a small boy in 547 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:14,190 the 70s and uri geller was very very 548 00:23:19,550 --> 00:23:17,730 famous in popular and I remember one 549 00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,560 occasion when he was about to appear on 550 00:23:23,330 --> 00:23:21,840 Australian television I don't even know 551 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:23,340 if was live you know could have been 552 00:23:29,670 --> 00:23:24,290 pre-recorded 553 00:23:33,460 --> 00:23:29,680 and my brother and I hid the spoons 554 00:23:36,190 --> 00:23:33,470 because we were so scared that the spook 555 00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:36,200 West that's what we were told people 556 00:23:39,940 --> 00:23:38,240 even people in their own houses their 557 00:23:43,210 --> 00:23:39,950 spoons or better with and what our 558 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:43,220 supposed it now it's a great little 559 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:45,290 funny story then I'm thinking about it 560 00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:47,930 that's that's really unfair it's been a 561 00:23:53,260 --> 00:23:50,720 mile it's mean it is unfair because um 562 00:23:56,110 --> 00:23:53,270 and it also belittles magic conjuring 563 00:23:57,820 --> 00:23:56,120 tricks you know spoon bending is a great 564 00:24:00,130 --> 00:23:57,830 old country trick great for parties 565 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:00,140 magicians do it for the purposes of 566 00:24:05,500 --> 00:24:03,530 entertainment yes and what really amazes 567 00:24:07,390 --> 00:24:05,510 me to this day is that somebody like 568 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:07,400 gallo or it was a few of them around at 569 00:24:12,910 --> 00:24:10,810 the time could do a shtick and I'll a 570 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:12,920 magical stick it's like pulling a rabbit 571 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:15,770 out of a hat but then tell people it was 572 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:18,610 a real it was real magic or real 573 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:21,770 metaphysical stuff going on it's it's 574 00:24:27,070 --> 00:24:23,450 it's jaw-dropping that people at the 575 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:27,080 time bought a little own now well that's 576 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:29,090 what was some of his other tricks if you 577 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:31,370 like that he was some it was renowned 578 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:34,250 for there's the spoon bending yeah um I 579 00:24:38,170 --> 00:24:35,570 guess is the first thing that comes to 580 00:24:41,290 --> 00:24:38,180 mind but were there any other sure he 581 00:24:43,450 --> 00:24:41,300 did about four others I think three or 582 00:24:46,510 --> 00:24:43,460 four others one of them was called in 583 00:24:47,890 --> 00:24:46,520 magic circles design duplication this is 584 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:47,900 where someone writes something on a 585 00:24:52,540 --> 00:24:50,210 notepad and puts it in an envelope and 586 00:24:55,930 --> 00:24:52,550 seals it up and then lo and behold the 587 00:24:57,850 --> 00:24:55,940 put the performer using magic powers can 588 00:25:02,950 --> 00:24:57,860 recreate on another note pad where they 589 00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:02,960 drew the the envelope son unveiled or 590 00:25:07,420 --> 00:25:05,000 whatever and y lo and behold it's the 591 00:25:09,910 --> 00:25:07,430 same drawing of course that's in magic 592 00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:09,920 books if you go to the magic shops you 593 00:25:13,390 --> 00:25:11,510 can buy books which we explained three 594 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:13,400 or four techniques and how they're very 595 00:25:16,810 --> 00:25:14,690 trick works so is the power of 596 00:25:19,330 --> 00:25:16,820 suggestion that's working it oh no it's 597 00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:19,340 it's it's you have to plan out your 598 00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:21,110 trick right so it's a slight of Florida 599 00:25:24,460 --> 00:25:22,760 sleight of hands you could look at it 600 00:25:26,290 --> 00:25:24,470 that way more of a sleight-of-hand yet 601 00:25:29,860 --> 00:25:26,300 and the other one he did was he'd make a 602 00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:29,870 compass bend move he'd say concentrate 603 00:25:32,890 --> 00:25:31,520 now and he get right down in they make 604 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:32,900 all sorts of noises like this having 605 00:25:38,499 --> 00:25:35,570 constipation and the compass would move 606 00:25:39,699 --> 00:25:38,509 ever so slightly is now it doesn't 607 00:25:41,649 --> 00:25:39,709 don't need to be a rocket scientist if 608 00:25:43,779 --> 00:25:41,659 you have a magnet with him yeah you you 609 00:25:46,539 --> 00:25:43,789 move compasses with a little magnet it's 610 00:25:48,189 --> 00:25:46,549 it's as simple as that but people wanted 611 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:48,199 to be true and they and they just went 612 00:25:52,749 --> 00:25:51,529 along with it I guess hey we were joined 613 00:25:54,699 --> 00:25:52,759 by Richard Saunders tonight vice 614 00:25:56,499 --> 00:25:54,709 president of the New South Wales branch 615 00:25:58,180 --> 00:25:56,509 of the Australian skeptics Association 616 00:26:00,009 --> 00:25:58,190 by this time I'm hoping that you've 617 00:26:03,489 --> 00:26:00,019 you've run to the cutlery drawer you've 618 00:26:04,629 --> 00:26:03,499 found your your best spoon now don't do 619 00:26:07,329 --> 00:26:04,639 that good fight if you can find yourself 620 00:26:08,859 --> 00:26:07,339 an old spoon I take it Richard we're 621 00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:08,869 looking for or not particularly thick 622 00:26:14,589 --> 00:26:11,679 spoons in this case it really depends on 623 00:26:16,659 --> 00:26:14,599 how you want to do the trick because you 624 00:26:19,629 --> 00:26:16,669 can actually use thick spoons or thin 625 00:26:22,659 --> 00:26:19,639 spoons um if you use good spoons you get 626 00:26:24,459 --> 00:26:22,669 into trouble at least I do see in fact 627 00:26:27,549 --> 00:26:24,469 I've got one with me right now fresh out 628 00:26:29,139 --> 00:26:27,559 of the packet at some that's it falling 629 00:26:32,769 --> 00:26:29,149 on the table i buy them in bulk at a 630 00:26:35,049 --> 00:26:32,779 catering store I have to because there's 631 00:26:37,209 --> 00:26:35,059 there's two basic spoon bending tricks 632 00:26:39,189 --> 00:26:37,219 one is with the spoon will simply bend 633 00:26:41,349 --> 00:26:39,199 right that's great because you can bend 634 00:26:43,869 --> 00:26:41,359 it back and use it the next day for the 635 00:26:45,879 --> 00:26:43,879 next person the other one is where you 636 00:26:48,999 --> 00:26:45,889 rub it between your fingers this lo and 637 00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:49,009 behold it droops melts and breaks into 638 00:26:53,049 --> 00:26:51,049 this is this is the one I love yeah 639 00:26:56,349 --> 00:26:53,059 that's the way though they rub it yeah 640 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:56,359 yeah is that top secret magic business 641 00:27:00,399 --> 00:26:58,129 or is there well I can allude to it I 642 00:27:03,549 --> 00:27:00,409 can allude to it it's basically metal 643 00:27:05,289 --> 00:27:03,559 fatigue so without going into too many 644 00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:05,299 details because you know every magicians 645 00:27:11,289 --> 00:27:06,769 got a slightly different way to do it 646 00:27:14,019 --> 00:27:11,299 it's a you have to prepare the spoon in 647 00:27:15,189 --> 00:27:14,029 advance ROG it's it's it's a simple step 648 00:27:16,599 --> 00:27:15,199 there's an old expression how do you 649 00:27:19,749 --> 00:27:16,609 bend a spoon while you do it when no 650 00:27:23,349 --> 00:27:19,759 one's looking now once the spoon is 651 00:27:26,430 --> 00:27:23,359 prepared enough bye bye baby can I can I 652 00:27:29,049 --> 00:27:26,440 ask you as far as preparing is concerned 653 00:27:32,369 --> 00:27:29,059 with are we talking you know heat or 654 00:27:35,229 --> 00:27:32,379 force force force but it does during the 655 00:27:37,239 --> 00:27:35,239 preparation when you're basically 656 00:27:39,159 --> 00:27:37,249 bending the spoon back and forth and 657 00:27:41,649 --> 00:27:39,169 back yeah it will get a stress fracture 658 00:27:43,389 --> 00:27:41,659 right and once the strike the stress 659 00:27:46,659 --> 00:27:43,399 fracture is in the neck of the spoon you 660 00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:46,669 stop you bring the spoon up to as it was 661 00:27:50,349 --> 00:27:49,039 before and it's surprisingly strong you 662 00:27:52,090 --> 00:27:50,359 can stir your coffee with it you can 663 00:27:54,460 --> 00:27:52,100 bang it on the table you can you 664 00:27:55,810 --> 00:27:54,470 like a normal spoon but when you put it 665 00:27:59,260 --> 00:27:55,820 between your fingers and you do the 666 00:28:02,230 --> 00:27:59,270 final break that's that's that's when 667 00:28:05,980 --> 00:28:02,240 the magic happens yeah now look right 668 00:28:08,260 --> 00:28:05,990 it's hard to explain on radio if people 669 00:28:10,180 --> 00:28:08,270 really want to know how to do it there's 670 00:28:11,380 --> 00:28:10,190 this little invention called YouTube and 671 00:28:14,529 --> 00:28:11,390 where you can find just about anything 672 00:28:17,380 --> 00:28:14,539 there yeah but it's it never it never 673 00:28:20,650 --> 00:28:17,390 fails to amuse people it's really great 674 00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:20,660 and what I find really interesting is I 675 00:28:26,409 --> 00:28:23,470 do a lot of talks for schools and 676 00:28:28,870 --> 00:28:26,419 students don't have a clue what spoon 677 00:28:31,419 --> 00:28:28,880 bending is it's way beyond their time 678 00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:31,429 yeah sure and it's a great lesson to 679 00:28:36,159 --> 00:28:33,710 know that or to think about if it was 680 00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:36,169 real if people in the 70s with the power 681 00:28:42,190 --> 00:28:38,720 of their mind could actually melt melt 682 00:28:45,070 --> 00:28:42,200 metal it wouldn't be something lost or 683 00:28:47,140 --> 00:28:45,080 to time it would be no it would be 684 00:28:48,399 --> 00:28:47,150 incredible it would be well-known would 685 00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:48,409 be you know what what a wasted 686 00:28:55,690 --> 00:28:50,240 opportunity that that we can't fool the 687 00:28:58,500 --> 00:28:55,700 younger generation by all the time but I 688 00:29:00,810 --> 00:28:58,510 don't say it like it's a magic trick 689 00:29:03,399 --> 00:29:00,820 Richard thank you ever so much for 690 00:29:05,529 --> 00:29:03,409 bringing out our psychic powers tonight 691 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:05,539 through the the magic of the bended 692 00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:07,850 spoon I appreciate it not a problem good 693 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:09,200 onion Richard Saunders just a vice 694 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:10,850 president of the New South Wales branch 695 00:29:15,549 --> 00:29:12,530 of the Australian skeptics Association 696 00:29:27,740 --> 00:29:15,559 turning you into a psychic tonight 20 697 00:29:33,090 --> 00:29:30,990 hello on Allah needle on solo scoffs of 698 00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:33,100 dip moment been to an odd low so another 699 00:29:40,110 --> 00:29:35,500 skeptics on for weeds and stop and katie 700 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:40,120 schneider incur a meeting for Marcy hana 701 00:29:53,670 --> 00:29:50,890 we nearly been skeptics own fund TV now 702 00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:53,680 it's time for dr. Rachel reports with 703 00:30:00,240 --> 00:29:58,570 dr. Rachel Dunlop several weeks ago I 704 00:30:02,250 --> 00:30:00,250 was asked to write a blog post about the 705 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:02,260 science behind vaccinations for the very 706 00:30:06,660 --> 00:30:04,210 popular blog in Australia Mamma Mia 707 00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:06,670 which you can find at mamma mia calm day 708 00:30:10,740 --> 00:30:08,710 you the post turned out to be very 709 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:10,750 popular and has since been shared over 710 00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:13,330 four thousand times on Facebook tweeted 711 00:30:18,780 --> 00:30:15,520 more than 400 times and at this point is 712 00:30:20,850 --> 00:30:18,790 up to more than 1,100 comments as a part 713 00:30:23,580 --> 00:30:20,860 of the blog post Mamma Mia TV which 714 00:30:26,820 --> 00:30:23,590 screens on Sky News did a story about 715 00:30:28,350 --> 00:30:26,830 vaccination last Friday it ad on Friday 716 00:30:30,150 --> 00:30:28,360 in Australia and featured the 717 00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:30,160 McCaffrey's who were brave enough to 718 00:30:33,930 --> 00:30:31,630 talk about the death of their four-week 719 00:30:36,990 --> 00:30:33,940 old daughter Dana from whooping cough in 720 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:37,000 2009 today we present for you the audio 721 00:30:41,790 --> 00:30:39,130 from the show if you'd like to see the 722 00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:41,800 video it's available on youtube if you 723 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:48,070 google mum Amir Sky News episode 11 this 724 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:50,770 is a very moving but ultimately 725 00:30:53,820 --> 00:30:52,210 inspirational interview with an 726 00:30:56,340 --> 00:30:53,830 incredible couple Tony and Dave 727 00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:56,350 McCaffrey their daughter Dana was only 728 00:31:01,350 --> 00:30:58,960 three weeks old when she first started 729 00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:01,360 to get a little sniffle and her mother 730 00:31:06,270 --> 00:31:03,670 Tony took her to the GP three times 731 00:31:07,470 --> 00:31:06,280 actually four times in three days she 732 00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:07,480 kept getting sent away but she knew 733 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:10,000 something was wrong it was only on that 734 00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:12,850 last visit that their nightmare truly 735 00:31:18,570 --> 00:31:15,550 began it wasn't until my doctor rang 736 00:31:21,750 --> 00:31:18,580 very shocked that with the positives 737 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:21,760 test and and I just picked up my son 738 00:31:25,410 --> 00:31:23,290 from school and she said go straight to 739 00:31:28,050 --> 00:31:25,420 the hospital and she said it's whooping 740 00:31:30,330 --> 00:31:28,060 cough and I was really relieved oh great 741 00:31:32,190 --> 00:31:30,340 we know what it yeah some of their when 742 00:31:32,970 --> 00:31:32,200 we walked into the ward they had it 743 00:31:35,549 --> 00:31:32,980 already 744 00:31:38,159 --> 00:31:35,559 we went into the isolation room and we 745 00:31:40,289 --> 00:31:38,169 literally walked in was about 10 minutes 746 00:31:43,590 --> 00:31:40,299 after we got there and she had her first 747 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:43,600 coughing paroxysm and it was like a 748 00:31:47,730 --> 00:31:45,970 coughing fear it's a coughing fit and I 749 00:31:51,810 --> 00:31:47,740 wouldn't even say it's a cough it was 750 00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:51,820 more like much yeah until she went 751 00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:55,840 silent until she started going red and 752 00:32:01,289 --> 00:31:58,510 purple and blue and suddenly just 753 00:32:02,820 --> 00:32:01,299 stopped breathing in our arms this is 754 00:32:06,330 --> 00:32:02,830 just after you've arrived disasters we 755 00:32:08,190 --> 00:32:06,340 derived it was oh my god if I think in 756 00:32:09,810 --> 00:32:08,200 the car oh hi we would have been 757 00:32:12,390 --> 00:32:09,820 resuscitating her on the side of the 758 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:12,400 road and they just quickly put the 759 00:32:16,380 --> 00:32:14,890 oxygen on it and very calmly said yep 760 00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:16,390 this is whooping cough from where we 761 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:19,030 just just in shock that's how we learned 762 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:21,610 about what whooping cough is and then 763 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:24,250 she would cough like that up to 10 times 764 00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:27,970 an hour and all we could do would be put 765 00:32:32,850 --> 00:32:31,000 oxygen on her too she regained her 766 00:32:34,530 --> 00:32:32,860 breath was there any treatment that 767 00:32:36,690 --> 00:32:34,540 could be given to a baby so young well 768 00:32:38,850 --> 00:32:36,700 that's that is a shocking thing for us 769 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:38,860 we've just bought her in choking and 770 00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:42,010 they said we look great what happens now 771 00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:44,710 and they said well there is no treatment 772 00:32:50,340 --> 00:32:47,950 all we can do moment is managed her and 773 00:32:53,130 --> 00:32:50,350 she's going to cough like this for up to 774 00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:53,140 three to four months giving anybody just 775 00:32:56,669 --> 00:32:55,120 just not have any pictures to other 776 00:32:58,770 --> 00:32:56,679 people how long were you in the hospital 777 00:33:01,950 --> 00:32:58,780 for weren't in there for five days and 778 00:33:05,220 --> 00:33:01,960 this is the whole this was the shock for 779 00:33:08,159 --> 00:33:05,230 us is that what was the block nose and 780 00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:08,169 something that I guess my GP made me 781 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:11,440 feel like I was overreacting 25 times 782 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:14,410 later my baby's dead it just was like a 783 00:33:19,650 --> 00:33:16,690 freight train and she was getting better 784 00:33:22,289 --> 00:33:19,660 on the Friday the nurses said to me you 785 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:22,299 be home on the weekend shoot she's doing 786 00:33:25,890 --> 00:33:23,530 really well cause she was recovering 787 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:25,900 through the coughs really well I don't 788 00:33:30,299 --> 00:33:28,210 think that once you're in a hospital and 789 00:33:31,860 --> 00:33:30,309 he was a shock to me we even when she 790 00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:31,870 first developed the pneumonia and they 791 00:33:35,159 --> 00:33:33,220 said look we're going to a diff too 792 00:33:38,010 --> 00:33:35,169 we're going to ventilator and anitha 793 00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:38,020 tiser I was so relieved because it just 794 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:41,980 meant she didn't have to see choke you 795 00:33:46,180 --> 00:33:43,690 know surely there must be a cure you 796 00:33:47,740 --> 00:33:46,190 know we there were babies in intensive 797 00:33:51,310 --> 00:33:47,750 airport you know they were fighting 798 00:33:53,019 --> 00:33:51,320 cancer they had heart defects organs on 799 00:33:57,460 --> 00:33:53,029 the outside of their body and I was I 800 00:34:00,759 --> 00:33:57,470 was just wishing that I kept saying to 801 00:34:03,610 --> 00:34:00,769 myself I'll swap it for cancer because 802 00:34:06,159 --> 00:34:03,620 at least then I've got we've got more of 803 00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:06,169 a chance but you just when you're given 804 00:34:11,139 --> 00:34:08,960 that and you know you just got to do 805 00:34:13,389 --> 00:34:11,149 what you can there are no warnings or 806 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:13,399 anything because your area this is 807 00:34:16,809 --> 00:34:14,690 something else you didn't know has one 808 00:34:19,329 --> 00:34:16,819 of the highest rates of maybe coffin is 809 00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:19,339 a fire that there was nothing there was 810 00:34:25,899 --> 00:34:22,510 no information there was nothing about 811 00:34:29,669 --> 00:34:25,909 adults needing a booster I just I was 812 00:34:32,349 --> 00:34:29,679 just gobsmacked that something so deadly 813 00:34:36,730 --> 00:34:32,359 there was no information about it and 814 00:34:38,409 --> 00:34:36,740 and then to know that uh you know there 815 00:34:41,260 --> 00:34:38,419 was two other babies they lifted from 816 00:34:44,559 --> 00:34:41,270 the lismore base hospital the week after 817 00:34:46,540 --> 00:34:44,569 Dana died so that's five babies in three 818 00:34:51,629 --> 00:34:46,550 weeks from not a very heavily populated 819 00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:51,639 area and it it was a really deadly 820 00:34:56,250 --> 00:34:54,169 situation where you've got something out 821 00:34:59,920 --> 00:34:56,260 there that's such a dangerous disease 822 00:35:02,200 --> 00:34:59,930 that kills one in two hundred babies no 823 00:35:04,930 --> 00:35:02,210 one was being told and it was until 824 00:35:08,589 --> 00:35:04,940 after Dana died that then we discovered 825 00:35:11,380 --> 00:35:08,599 to our horror it was it was everywhere 826 00:35:13,839 --> 00:35:11,390 like information is everything yeah 827 00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:13,849 because if you're warned you know really 828 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:16,040 should get a chance if you want my 829 00:35:19,569 --> 00:35:17,930 reason they got vaccination is because 830 00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:19,579 of these diseases happens like killers 831 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:21,440 for the only thing we've got is 832 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:23,810 vaccination to help prevent this 833 00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:26,290 happening to our most vulnerable so 834 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:28,910 that's a really important point I think 835 00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:32,290 we need to mind this is a deadly disease 836 00:35:37,059 --> 00:35:35,089 and I haven't found a cure for but even 837 00:35:38,530 --> 00:35:37,069 in those days after Dana's death seeing 838 00:35:40,839 --> 00:35:38,540 some of the headlines you know it's a 839 00:35:43,450 --> 00:35:40,849 very empty feeling opening a paper scene 840 00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:43,460 full week old baby dead whooping cough 841 00:35:49,410 --> 00:35:45,950 and it's yours but then you read stuff 842 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:49,420 in it that's inaccurate like why like 843 00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:52,490 you know these two paragraphs and you 844 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:53,990 know before we called baby died of 845 00:35:56,559 --> 00:35:55,130 whooping cough so if you have any 846 00:35:58,950 --> 00:35:56,569 symptoms go to your doctor and get so 847 00:36:00,840 --> 00:35:58,960 many bodies like that 848 00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:00,850 you think but no that's not going to 849 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:02,800 it's not going to do anything and then 850 00:36:08,580 --> 00:36:06,250 of course the whole you know it exploded 851 00:36:10,230 --> 00:36:08,590 with the pros and cons you know that 852 00:36:12,630 --> 00:36:10,240 both sides of the vaccination debate 853 00:36:15,210 --> 00:36:12,640 balance on a debate that we had nowhere 854 00:36:18,210 --> 00:36:15,220 wenzel one of the morning shows was on 855 00:36:19,470 --> 00:36:18,220 and they had an expert on and the expert 856 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:19,480 had said you've got a question the 857 00:36:24,150 --> 00:36:21,370 mothers because she should have passed 858 00:36:28,830 --> 00:36:24,160 on immunity during childbirth and I I 859 00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,840 was watching that and I just I ran my 860 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:30,880 doctor's gate it was mean because I 861 00:36:37,110 --> 00:36:34,330 didn't I couldn't protect her and that's 862 00:36:39,180 --> 00:36:37,120 when we just the day after Dana's 863 00:36:41,310 --> 00:36:39,190 funeral when Dave and I just took some 864 00:36:43,890 --> 00:36:41,320 time out and went and SAT by her grave 865 00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:43,900 for a few hours just to I guess get 866 00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:46,720 through the shock of it all we're just 867 00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:48,910 so we just got to say something because 868 00:36:55,770 --> 00:36:52,960 it's just the informations not out there 869 00:37:00,000 --> 00:36:55,780 people just don't understand protection 870 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:00,010 or supported I felt by her family were 871 00:37:07,230 --> 00:37:03,850 yeah but support but we started to 872 00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:07,240 become aware of them a bunch of people 873 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:11,020 you didn't basically like us because we 874 00:37:15,870 --> 00:37:13,930 were trying to help our community fear 875 00:37:20,070 --> 00:37:15,880 that very strange yeah we what would 876 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:20,080 fight bizarre is that our daughter had 877 00:37:26,370 --> 00:37:23,050 died of something horrendous that was 878 00:37:27,930 --> 00:37:26,380 prevented that was preventable and we 879 00:37:30,930 --> 00:37:27,940 just wanted to warn other parents so it 880 00:37:33,390 --> 00:37:30,940 doesn't happen to them it's very very 881 00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:33,400 simple barrowed of course you've got no 882 00:37:38,190 --> 00:37:36,220 no we don't own a pharmaceutical company 883 00:37:41,250 --> 00:37:38,200 i well it's one of those things if 884 00:37:43,350 --> 00:37:41,260 someone's got information then they you 885 00:37:44,820 --> 00:37:43,360 know they warned and we just wanted to 886 00:37:47,460 --> 00:37:44,830 give people the warning we didn't get 887 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:47,470 that's all all our intention has ever 888 00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:51,010 been what an amazing couple and what is 889 00:37:59,250 --> 00:37:54,910 terribly tragic story the story of Dana 890 00:38:02,250 --> 00:37:59,260 McCaffrey is one that that you know has 891 00:38:04,170 --> 00:38:02,260 gone on to have some benefit through the 892 00:38:05,970 --> 00:38:04,180 bravery of her parents who have decided 893 00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:05,980 to honor her by speaking out what did 894 00:38:10,380 --> 00:38:08,080 you guys think devastated because we 895 00:38:11,980 --> 00:38:10,390 made the choice with our child to delay 896 00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:11,990 the whooping cough 897 00:38:16,570 --> 00:38:15,200 sedation it was something I you know I 898 00:38:19,090 --> 00:38:16,580 didn't feel comfortable with but my 899 00:38:21,580 --> 00:38:19,100 partner felt strongly about it and and I 900 00:38:23,290 --> 00:38:21,590 didn't I didn't know that yeah there's 901 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:23,300 so much that I didn't know Braun you've 902 00:38:27,250 --> 00:38:25,610 got a little one up you probably can't 903 00:38:29,350 --> 00:38:27,260 talk to know you're really upset during 904 00:38:32,410 --> 00:38:29,360 that Sarah asked you yeah it's really 905 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:32,420 upsetting and I think that um you know 906 00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:33,650 you just never get over the death of a 907 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:36,320 child but it's a great legacy to to 908 00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:37,850 their little girl that they can do this 909 00:38:43,420 --> 00:38:40,910 and very powerful message I think of 910 00:38:44,530 --> 00:38:43,430 grief and loss and I do know that I've 911 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:44,540 got a friend who's had a little girl 912 00:38:48,970 --> 00:38:46,010 that had whooping cough and she survived 913 00:38:51,460 --> 00:38:48,980 but it was just horrific and you know I 914 00:38:53,410 --> 00:38:51,470 find it very upsetting and it goes back 915 00:38:55,870 --> 00:38:53,420 to what we were saying before you know 916 00:38:58,630 --> 00:38:55,880 we have scientists who believe in proof 917 00:39:00,280 --> 00:38:58,640 who test things to the enth degree that 918 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:00,290 don't believe in coincidence or any of 919 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:01,490 the other things we do and when they 920 00:39:04,630 --> 00:39:02,930 absolutely tell us something this is 921 00:39:07,710 --> 00:39:04,640 questioning of science in the medicine 922 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:07,720 and this belief in things really that 923 00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,770 you know I don't mind people believe in 924 00:39:12,370 --> 00:39:11,119 things that aren't dangerous to other 925 00:39:14,620 --> 00:39:12,380 people like whatever floats your boat 926 00:39:16,330 --> 00:39:14,630 but when you're kind of advocating and 927 00:39:19,060 --> 00:39:16,340 spreading this information that goes 928 00:39:20,530 --> 00:39:19,070 against science that can kill people in 929 00:39:22,330 --> 00:39:20,540 the community and small babies it's just 930 00:39:24,580 --> 00:39:22,340 it's horrendous that you think there's a 931 00:39:27,250 --> 00:39:24,590 you know I had whooping cough as a child 932 00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:27,260 as well or not and I survived it my mum 933 00:39:33,490 --> 00:39:30,710 said it was just a nightmare but I think 934 00:39:35,020 --> 00:39:33,500 that you do here the case is old my 935 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:35,030 child had whooping cough and survived 936 00:39:41,380 --> 00:39:38,450 and I think that the the notion that it 937 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:41,390 is a fatal disease there is no cure for 938 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:44,690 gets lost in thought it was so poignant 939 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:46,010 where they talked about you get to 940 00:39:50,740 --> 00:39:48,290 hospital anything okay now she can be 941 00:39:52,690 --> 00:39:50,750 treated and to hear there is no 942 00:39:54,310 --> 00:39:52,700 treatment there is no cure antibiotics 943 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:54,320 all it does is stop you from spreading 944 00:39:58,990 --> 00:39:56,090 it it doesn't actually help you fight it 945 00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:59,000 there that's why as Dave McCaffrey said 946 00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:00,560 that's why we have vaccinations for the 947 00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:02,960 diseases that you can't cure yeah that's 948 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:05,240 right okay and we wouldn't be knowing 949 00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:06,290 this information we wouldn't be having 950 00:40:10,180 --> 00:40:07,730 this conversation if it wasn't for their 951 00:40:13,060 --> 00:40:10,190 courage my parents lost my sister when 952 00:40:14,349 --> 00:40:13,070 she was really young and so I know how 953 00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:14,359 difficult it is to people to speak out 954 00:40:17,830 --> 00:40:16,310 but having seen their courage I mean 955 00:40:19,210 --> 00:40:17,840 it's just extraordinary the only way we 956 00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:19,220 start this conversation is when people 957 00:40:23,380 --> 00:40:21,680 share powerful stories and they're sad 958 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:23,390 stories but they're powerful because 959 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:25,730 they make us question why people 960 00:40:28,930 --> 00:40:27,410 are likeable acting like this in the 961 00:40:30,730 --> 00:40:28,940 first place why people not getting their 962 00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:30,740 children vaccinated and that's the thing 963 00:40:35,830 --> 00:40:33,710 it's this anti-establishment anti expert 964 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:35,840 thing it's this trend that seems to be 965 00:40:38,590 --> 00:40:37,490 going on out there but I think it's 966 00:40:40,090 --> 00:40:38,600 actually a link to this other trend 967 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:40,100 that's going on which is the trend 968 00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:42,170 towards the individual you know i can 969 00:40:45,970 --> 00:40:44,510 google whatever i want if you google 970 00:40:47,410 --> 00:40:45,980 something now on vaccinations sixty 971 00:40:49,330 --> 00:40:47,420 percent of what you find is just rubbish 972 00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,340 that sixty percent is wrong and this is 973 00:40:52,420 --> 00:40:50,720 because we all think they are with the 974 00:40:54,099 --> 00:40:52,430 power of the internet and this trend 975 00:40:56,530 --> 00:40:54,109 towards teaching people that you know 976 00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:56,540 its your right to decide well actually 977 00:40:59,500 --> 00:40:58,130 it's sometimes it shouldn't be sometimes 978 00:41:01,180 --> 00:40:59,510 actually yeah it's going to impact your 979 00:41:02,650 --> 00:41:01,190 own ice cream I think it's one thing 980 00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:02,660 defending someone's right to their own 981 00:41:06,940 --> 00:41:04,400 beliefs if it doesn't affect anyone as 982 00:41:08,980 --> 00:41:06,950 you say so but to me it's like defending 983 00:41:11,140 --> 00:41:08,990 someone's right to drink and drive stuff 984 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:11,150 that if you if your decision or your 985 00:41:16,750 --> 00:41:14,410 belief has the impact to affect my child 986 00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:16,760 will then you know you do not have that 987 00:41:22,420 --> 00:41:19,220 the right to believe that but there's a 988 00:41:23,380 --> 00:41:22,430 visit nasty twist to this story and 989 00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:23,390 something that will make you pretty 990 00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:26,000 angry we've got an expert on set to 991 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:27,920 discuss more of this story and more 992 00:41:40,130 --> 00:41:29,330 about the McCaffrey's after the break 993 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:42,690 welcome back to the show we've been 994 00:41:47,010 --> 00:41:45,490 talking about vaccinations and we just 995 00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:47,020 saw an interview with the very brave 996 00:41:51,770 --> 00:41:49,270 McCaffrey family who tragically lost 997 00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:51,780 their daughter Dana at four weeks old 998 00:41:55,950 --> 00:41:54,250 because they didn't know that there was 999 00:41:58,290 --> 00:41:55,960 a lot of whooping cough in their area 1000 00:41:59,820 --> 00:41:58,300 we're joined at the table by dr. Rachel 1001 00:42:02,370 --> 00:41:59,830 Dunlop we're home Mia Thank You 1002 00:42:03,810 --> 00:42:02,380 scientist and researcher who wrote one 1003 00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:03,820 of the most popular posts we've ever had 1004 00:42:08,430 --> 00:42:06,460 at Memorial this week it's already been 1005 00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:08,440 shared I think three and a half thousand 1006 00:42:14,580 --> 00:42:11,440 time and then it is nine myths about 1007 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:14,590 vaccinations yeah well I basically wrote 1008 00:42:18,690 --> 00:42:16,570 it because as McCaffrey's mentioned in 1009 00:42:20,670 --> 00:42:18,700 their story there's a lot of 1010 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:20,680 misinformation out there and is very 1011 00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:22,810 hard to find correct and accurate 1012 00:42:26,970 --> 00:42:25,210 information and because we are in the 1013 00:42:28,650 --> 00:42:26,980 grips of a whooping cough epidemic in 1014 00:42:31,260 --> 00:42:28,660 Australia we have been for about three 1015 00:42:33,780 --> 00:42:31,270 years now we've lost about four babies 1016 00:42:35,430 --> 00:42:33,790 already in fact there's a whooping cough 1017 00:42:36,780 --> 00:42:35,440 epidemic worldwide and we've seen the 1018 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:36,790 resurgence of vaccine-preventable 1019 00:42:41,580 --> 00:42:39,970 diseases like measles like mumps things 1020 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:41,590 that you wouldn't expect to see anymore 1021 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:44,050 and indeed a few months ago a woman in 1022 00:42:48,780 --> 00:42:46,930 Queensland died from diphtheria a 22 1023 00:42:51,180 --> 00:42:48,790 year old now I mentioned that there was 1024 00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,190 a nasty disturbing twist to the tale of 1025 00:42:54,930 --> 00:42:53,440 the McCaffrey's and that is um that 1026 00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:54,940 after their daughter died and they 1027 00:42:58,140 --> 00:42:56,770 decided that they would speak out and 1028 00:43:00,750 --> 00:42:58,150 say she died of whooping cough please 1029 00:43:01,980 --> 00:43:00,760 get your your kids immunized and get 1030 00:43:03,570 --> 00:43:01,990 your boosters because that's something 1031 00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:03,580 that they also didn't know that immunity 1032 00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:05,440 wanes and that as adults you need 1033 00:43:12,090 --> 00:43:09,760 boosters to stay protected they became 1034 00:43:15,510 --> 00:43:12,100 the target of abuse and the 1035 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:15,520 anti-vaccination network and people who 1036 00:43:22,850 --> 00:43:18,850 are anti-vaccination targeted them with 1037 00:43:26,190 --> 00:43:22,860 letters accuse them of being Liars and 1038 00:43:28,410 --> 00:43:26,200 basically have had this persecution of 1039 00:43:31,170 --> 00:43:28,420 them there are people in Australia who 1040 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:31,180 are rapidly against vaccination and why 1041 00:43:36,030 --> 00:43:34,090 are they well difficult what's their 1042 00:43:37,770 --> 00:43:36,040 motivation most I think most parents 1043 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:37,780 start from a position where their child 1044 00:43:41,340 --> 00:43:39,610 has had a vaccination and then had some 1045 00:43:43,500 --> 00:43:41,350 sort of a side effect about side effect 1046 00:43:45,570 --> 00:43:43,510 now the issue with vaccinations is 1047 00:43:47,250 --> 00:43:45,580 there's a lot of temporal association 1048 00:43:49,380 --> 00:43:47,260 what does that mean well it means that 1049 00:43:51,630 --> 00:43:49,390 you can get a vaccination and then you 1050 00:43:52,849 --> 00:43:51,640 might your child might get sick now just 1051 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:52,859 because that happen 1052 00:43:56,029 --> 00:43:54,450 at the same time as the vaccination 1053 00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:56,039 doesn't necessarily mean it what what 1054 00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:57,599 about I mean there are obviously cases 1055 00:44:01,130 --> 00:43:59,460 of vaccine reactions where you know that 1056 00:44:03,259 --> 00:44:01,140 they happen noses and as doctors and 1057 00:44:04,999 --> 00:44:03,269 scientists we we tracked those away and 1058 00:44:06,589 --> 00:44:05,009 obviously people might remember last 1059 00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:06,599 year there were a lot of reactions to 1060 00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:08,910 the flu vaccine particularly in Western 1061 00:44:11,839 --> 00:44:10,410 Australia and there was a thorough 1062 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:11,849 investigation by the government and that 1063 00:44:16,130 --> 00:44:13,650 vaccine was immediately pulled from you 1064 00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:16,140 the most common misconception is the 1065 00:44:21,140 --> 00:44:18,180 idea of vaccine somehow been linked to 1066 00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:21,150 autism yeah and you mentioned that that 1067 00:44:25,220 --> 00:44:23,400 is unfortunately diagnosed around the 1068 00:44:26,989 --> 00:44:25,230 same time as children get the MMR and 1069 00:44:29,089 --> 00:44:26,999 that's the measles mumps rubella vaccine 1070 00:44:31,099 --> 00:44:29,099 that was originally started sort of by a 1071 00:44:33,170 --> 00:44:31,109 scientist and doctor in the UK called 1072 00:44:35,479 --> 00:44:33,180 Andrew Wakefield now he has subsequently 1073 00:44:37,279 --> 00:44:35,489 been struck off the medical register the 1074 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:37,289 paper that he wrote which led to that 1075 00:44:42,019 --> 00:44:39,930 sort of belief has been struck from the 1076 00:44:43,789 --> 00:44:42,029 scientific literature and he was 1077 00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,799 completely damned for that work it 1078 00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:45,599 turned out in fact that he was not just 1079 00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,839 doing bad science it was fraudulent an 1080 00:44:52,099 --> 00:44:49,680 investigation showed that he actually 1081 00:44:54,109 --> 00:44:52,109 had so many conflicts of interest he was 1082 00:44:56,299 --> 00:44:54,119 actually getting paid by lawyers to 1083 00:44:58,819 --> 00:44:56,309 demonstrate that vaccines cause injury 1084 00:45:00,499 --> 00:44:58,829 in a case where these parents were going 1085 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:00,509 to sue big pharmaceutical companies he 1086 00:45:05,390 --> 00:45:03,450 he got paid 450,000 pounds for that this 1087 00:45:08,059 --> 00:45:05,400 stuff happens it makes me extra angry 1088 00:45:10,430 --> 00:45:08,069 because it's people praying on that fear 1089 00:45:12,979 --> 00:45:10,440 that lost that insecurity people wanting 1090 00:45:14,749 --> 00:45:12,989 an answer I want an answer and it just 1091 00:45:15,739 --> 00:45:14,759 sort of that's what so you got a lot 1092 00:45:17,329 --> 00:45:15,749 that's particularly the thing about 1093 00:45:19,130 --> 00:45:17,339 autism too because you don't know what 1094 00:45:20,779 --> 00:45:19,140 causes autism and we don't have a cure 1095 00:45:22,549 --> 00:45:20,789 because these people it's a really scary 1096 00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:22,559 concept I don't have kids myself but you 1097 00:45:25,940 --> 00:45:23,910 guys would understand like if you take 1098 00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:25,950 your child to a doctor and you put it's 1099 00:45:30,140 --> 00:45:28,170 a medical procedure you don't want to 1100 00:45:32,450 --> 00:45:30,150 harm your child you don't want them to 1101 00:45:34,339 --> 00:45:32,460 get sick and the idea that if they do 1102 00:45:36,859 --> 00:45:34,349 get sick you've you've made that happen 1103 00:45:38,059 --> 00:45:36,869 you know if if they catch a disease in 1104 00:45:40,609 --> 00:45:38,069 the playground well that's not really 1105 00:45:43,489 --> 00:45:40,619 your fault but if you are the one that 1106 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:43,499 caused that so I think those that you 1107 00:45:47,059 --> 00:45:45,210 know the guilt factor yeah and it's 1108 00:45:50,059 --> 00:45:47,069 scary and once you scare parents into 1109 00:45:51,769 --> 00:45:50,069 thinking that these things my cause it's 1110 00:45:53,059 --> 00:45:51,779 like ringing a bell Mia you can't unring 1111 00:45:54,890 --> 00:45:53,069 it isn't there more fear about 1112 00:45:57,229 --> 00:45:54,900 potentially them just being in a shop 1113 00:45:59,239 --> 00:45:57,239 like I was in a shop with my at the time 1114 00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:59,249 three-month-old baby and a woman was 1115 00:46:03,650 --> 00:46:01,200 pushing her pram with a little girl and 1116 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:03,660 it was maybe two or three coughing and I 1117 00:46:06,289 --> 00:46:05,249 was kind of I said I'll sorry she's got 1118 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:06,299 whooping cough 1119 00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:10,650 and she yeah and I think like I could 1120 00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:13,140 not get my daughter away fast enough and 1121 00:46:15,949 --> 00:46:14,400 I just thought that is just so 1122 00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:15,959 irresponsible all I say it's not an 1123 00:46:19,759 --> 00:46:17,880 argument it's not a debate it's not a 1124 00:46:22,539 --> 00:46:19,769 debate autism is not caused by 1125 00:46:25,759 --> 00:46:22,549 vaccination and to say otherwise is 1126 00:46:29,539 --> 00:46:25,769 illogical it's also not stupid it is 1127 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:29,549 stupid and it runs down the medical 1128 00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:31,410 profession and that the thousands of 1129 00:46:35,390 --> 00:46:32,880 professionals who've dedicated their 1130 00:46:37,999 --> 00:46:35,400 lives to vaccines and to studying these 1131 00:46:40,729 --> 00:46:38,009 diseases what is it about people who 1132 00:46:42,979 --> 00:46:40,739 then go our I just don't believe it it's 1133 00:46:44,269 --> 00:46:42,989 a conspiracy it was happening on so many 1134 00:46:46,459 --> 00:46:44,279 things is happening on climate change 1135 00:46:48,949 --> 00:46:46,469 you know it's a conspiracy it's not real 1136 00:46:50,329 --> 00:46:48,959 it's you know this the one about HIV 1137 00:46:52,339 --> 00:46:50,339 doesn't cause I don't at a whole range 1138 00:46:54,410 --> 00:46:52,349 of others and yeah it does quite a few 1139 00:46:56,599 --> 00:46:54,420 of them at the man we've got to go back 1140 00:46:57,919 --> 00:46:56,609 to talking about responsibility one of 1141 00:46:59,479 --> 00:46:57,929 the values that we've got to be teaching 1142 00:47:00,890 --> 00:46:59,489 our young people as they grow up is 1143 00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:00,900 actually we have a responsibility for 1144 00:47:05,419 --> 00:47:02,910 each other not just for ourselves become 1145 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:05,429 so focused on our right to choose and 1146 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:07,049 we've been talking about that across the 1147 00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:08,249 show here but here my right to choose 1148 00:47:11,209 --> 00:47:10,170 not to vaccinate well actually you know 1149 00:47:13,279 --> 00:47:11,219 what that's going to have any hiding 1150 00:47:15,349 --> 00:47:13,289 somewhere right but I called the astray 1151 00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:15,359 and vaccination network which isn't 1152 00:47:19,429 --> 00:47:17,640 incredibly misleading because if you're 1153 00:47:21,049 --> 00:47:19,439 on a website if you don't believe in 1154 00:47:22,849 --> 00:47:21,059 vaccination is then truly a website the 1155 00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:22,859 anti-vaccination network don't call it 1156 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:24,569 the Australian vaccination network and 1157 00:47:28,130 --> 00:47:25,729 then have a whole lot of misinformation 1158 00:47:29,449 --> 00:47:28,140 which is what's happening isn't it avian 1159 00:47:30,859 --> 00:47:29,459 is there no and they do have a website 1160 00:47:33,079 --> 00:47:30,869 that's very schmick it looks very 1161 00:47:34,939 --> 00:47:33,089 professional as a parent and not of 1162 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:34,949 stroke balance doesn't that it does um 1163 00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:37,890 being read it and it's misleading 1164 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:39,660 because in fact there were two 1165 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:41,249 complaints made about the information on 1166 00:47:44,419 --> 00:47:43,170 that website last year and the health 1167 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:44,429 care Complaints Commission in New South 1168 00:47:48,140 --> 00:47:46,890 Wales did a 12 month investigation and 1169 00:47:49,789 --> 00:47:48,150 when they came out at the end they deem 1170 00:47:52,099 --> 00:47:49,799 that their information was misleading 1171 00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:52,109 that this organization cherry-picked 1172 00:47:55,339 --> 00:47:53,729 scientific literature to make it sound 1173 00:47:58,279 --> 00:47:55,349 legit emit and all of their information 1174 00:48:00,049 --> 00:47:58,289 is anti-vaccination it's not anything 1175 00:48:02,299 --> 00:48:00,059 useful and that parents should seek a 1176 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:02,309 registered health practitioner now in 1177 00:48:05,929 --> 00:48:04,410 fact they refuse to put a disclaimer on 1178 00:48:07,370 --> 00:48:05,939 their website saying that because 1179 00:48:09,559 --> 00:48:07,380 clearly they don't want parents to know 1180 00:48:11,329 --> 00:48:09,569 they're against vaccination is why would 1181 00:48:12,859 --> 00:48:11,339 you listen to them so as a result of 1182 00:48:14,509 --> 00:48:12,869 that they also lost their charity 1183 00:48:15,890 --> 00:48:14,519 license so they were a charity which 1184 00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:15,900 means you know the ferret because they 1185 00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:17,609 solicit for donation 1186 00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:19,380 so they make money out of out of what 1187 00:48:23,630 --> 00:48:21,599 they do yeah and but to me I can't 1188 00:48:25,279 --> 00:48:23,640 understand how an organization like that 1189 00:48:27,620 --> 00:48:25,289 got a charity status to be completely 1190 00:48:29,539 --> 00:48:27,630 because I don't know how you could say 1191 00:48:31,579 --> 00:48:29,549 discouraging parents from vaccinating is 1192 00:48:33,799 --> 00:48:31,589 a charitable activity the head of that 1193 00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:33,809 organization said that with whooping 1194 00:48:37,009 --> 00:48:35,249 cough you didn't die from it 30 years 1195 00:48:38,839 --> 00:48:37,019 ago and you don't die from it now but 1196 00:48:41,299 --> 00:48:38,849 this is rubbish like what did she 1197 00:48:44,089 --> 00:48:41,309 possibly die from then well she's this 1198 00:48:46,729 --> 00:48:44,099 is very much typing and and indeed the 1199 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:46,739 head of the avn rang the Department of 1200 00:48:53,150 --> 00:48:49,650 Public Health in New South Wales to ask 1201 00:48:56,390 --> 00:48:53,160 for that information personally moments 1202 00:48:58,519 --> 00:48:56,400 so I know it's yes not only they lost 1203 00:49:00,440 --> 00:48:58,529 their baby but they've had to defend 1204 00:49:02,450 --> 00:49:00,450 themselves when all they're trying to do 1205 00:49:05,299 --> 00:49:02,460 they're saying seek reputable 1206 00:49:07,489 --> 00:49:05,309 information because in their area back 1207 00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:07,499 then there was no information she said 1208 00:49:11,870 --> 00:49:10,140 we were in the highest risk the area in 1209 00:49:13,579 --> 00:49:11,880 Australia with the highest incidence of 1210 00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:13,589 whooping cough and there was no 1211 00:49:17,509 --> 00:49:15,480 pamphlets she told me this heartbreaking 1212 00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:17,519 story of going home and looking through 1213 00:49:20,690 --> 00:49:19,049 the bounty bag that you get when you're 1214 00:49:22,099 --> 00:49:20,700 left hospital she said there must have 1215 00:49:24,229 --> 00:49:22,109 been a pamphlet I must have missed 1216 00:49:26,210 --> 00:49:24,239 something it must have been my fault and 1217 00:49:27,739 --> 00:49:26,220 she said you know you heard all those 1218 00:49:29,420 --> 00:49:27,749 babies in that area had been airlifted 1219 00:49:31,609 --> 00:49:29,430 and there was no public health warning 1220 00:49:34,579 --> 00:49:31,619 they weren't advised to keep their their 1221 00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,589 children inside and her husband works at 1222 00:49:39,859 --> 00:49:37,200 a primary school as well and they've 1223 00:49:42,049 --> 00:49:39,869 gone on to have a little girl called 1224 00:49:43,460 --> 00:49:42,059 Sarah who's eight months old who I met 1225 00:49:47,089 --> 00:49:43,470 yesterday as well who's just beautiful 1226 00:49:50,089 --> 00:49:47,099 and when she was born there were 50 kids 1227 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:50,099 at his school who had whooping cough and 1228 00:49:54,970 --> 00:49:51,930 he took six months off so that they 1229 00:49:56,900 --> 00:49:54,980 absolutely just lived in another common 1230 00:49:59,180 --> 00:49:56,910 question that I've heard about 1231 00:50:00,559 --> 00:49:59,190 vaccinations is why they all bundle 1232 00:50:03,229 --> 00:50:00,569 together there's been studies done 1233 00:50:05,569 --> 00:50:03,239 looking at whether it's beneficial to 1234 00:50:07,009 --> 00:50:05,579 separate them or not and in fact there 1235 00:50:08,299 --> 00:50:07,019 was a study done in a thousand kids 1236 00:50:11,359 --> 00:50:08,309 which was published in the journal 1237 00:50:13,970 --> 00:50:11,369 Pediatrics I think last year and they 1238 00:50:16,339 --> 00:50:13,980 followed kids after a year after they'd 1239 00:50:17,390 --> 00:50:16,349 had their vaccinations and then that 1240 00:50:19,130 --> 00:50:17,400 when there were seven or when they were 1241 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:19,140 10 and the kids that had their 1242 00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:20,970 vaccinations on schedule according to 1243 00:50:24,109 --> 00:50:22,440 the schedule performed better in 1244 00:50:26,420 --> 00:50:24,119 neurological tests and the kids who'd 1245 00:50:28,249 --> 00:50:26,430 missed them or had none at all so the 1246 00:50:30,019 --> 00:50:28,259 you see there's so many times in 1247 00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:30,029 scientific studies the only thing you'll 1248 00:50:33,890 --> 00:50:31,440 find that's different between back 1249 00:50:35,750 --> 00:50:33,900 kids are unvaccinated kids is the 1250 00:50:37,579 --> 00:50:35,760 unvaccinated kids get communicable 1251 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:37,589 diseases they get whooping cough they 1252 00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:39,690 get pertussis they get the flu that's 1253 00:50:43,309 --> 00:50:41,520 the only difference there's never been 1254 00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:43,319 any evidence to show that vaccinated 1255 00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:44,730 kids are more susceptible to arthritis 1256 00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:48,569 or to XML or any sort of allergies so 1257 00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:50,250 this idea that a vaccination gives you 1258 00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,710 the disease is incorrect absolutely 1259 00:50:56,300 --> 00:50:54,960 another is absolutely I mean people do 1260 00:50:58,579 --> 00:50:56,310 sort of mention is particularly with the 1261 00:51:00,200 --> 00:50:58,589 flu vaccine as kids do get a reaction 1262 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:00,210 they get a little lump on their leg or 1263 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:02,250 they're a bit of a favor sometime don't 1264 00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:03,930 forget a dead virus so you build the 1265 00:51:08,089 --> 00:51:06,420 antibodies well the whole point of it 1266 00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:08,099 like you will get a reaction and that's 1267 00:51:11,359 --> 00:51:09,690 a good thing because it means that your 1268 00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:11,369 immune system is responding because 1269 00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:13,290 basically what's in a vaccine is a small 1270 00:51:18,140 --> 00:51:15,300 part or either the dead the dead virus 1271 00:51:20,450 --> 00:51:18,150 with bacteria so it's inactivated which 1272 00:51:23,630 --> 00:51:20,460 means you can't get the disease and then 1273 00:51:25,730 --> 00:51:23,640 your immune system responds by making 1274 00:51:27,140 --> 00:51:25,740 antibodies so you will get a similar 1275 00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:27,150 sort of effect to what you might get 1276 00:51:31,309 --> 00:51:29,010 with the full disease but much less 1277 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:31,319 serious and so what that means is your 1278 00:51:34,790 --> 00:51:33,450 body is primed then with antibodies and 1279 00:51:36,740 --> 00:51:34,800 next time you come across that disease 1280 00:51:39,140 --> 00:51:36,750 in the environment you're ready to fight 1281 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:39,150 it straight away so that's another myth 1282 00:51:42,620 --> 00:51:41,130 that some people talk about to as well 1283 00:51:44,089 --> 00:51:42,630 make my child got vaccinated for 1284 00:51:45,710 --> 00:51:44,099 whooping cough but they still got who me 1285 00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:45,720 a half they got much more and I'm but 1286 00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:47,609 yeah one in two hundred babies that 1287 00:51:51,940 --> 00:51:49,920 haven't had a vaccine will die anyone 1288 00:51:55,790 --> 00:51:51,950 who's not vaccinated for whooping cough 1289 00:51:57,079 --> 00:51:55,800 will get much more severe case so I like 1290 00:51:59,059 --> 00:51:57,089 to sort of describe it as it's not a 1291 00:52:00,859 --> 00:51:59,069 force field a vaccination is not a force 1292 00:52:03,849 --> 00:52:00,869 field my son was vaccinated and he got 1293 00:52:06,620 --> 00:52:03,859 my eldest son and he got whooping cough 1294 00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:06,630 last year when he was 13 so the fact 1295 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:09,510 that the vaccination wears off doesn't 1296 00:52:12,380 --> 00:52:10,770 mean you shouldn't get it it just means 1297 00:52:14,300 --> 00:52:12,390 that you should get a boost exactly 1298 00:52:16,220 --> 00:52:14,310 booster that yeah as i don'ts we're all 1299 00:52:17,690 --> 00:52:16,230 supposed we should know only about ten 1300 00:52:20,780 --> 00:52:17,700 percent of us are actually still immune 1301 00:52:22,339 --> 00:52:20,790 to hope incredible yeah spreading it to 1302 00:52:24,109 --> 00:52:22,349 kids yet my brother had a little baby 1303 00:52:26,059 --> 00:52:24,119 and he was like you all need to get 1304 00:52:27,859 --> 00:52:26,069 absolutely because there is an epidemic 1305 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:27,869 some states of Australia they are 1306 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:29,490 offering free boosters to Kara's 1307 00:52:33,530 --> 00:52:31,290 grandparents healthcare professionals in 1308 00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:33,540 Victoria at least it's free until June 1309 00:52:37,670 --> 00:52:36,089 2012 but i'm not sure about other states 1310 00:52:39,650 --> 00:52:37,680 anymore because they did it for a while 1311 00:52:40,849 --> 00:52:39,660 and then they sort of stopped and this 1312 00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:40,859 is something that mccaffrey's have been 1313 00:52:44,690 --> 00:52:42,569 saying for a long time is they've been 1314 00:52:45,450 --> 00:52:44,700 talking to government health ministers 1315 00:52:48,660 --> 00:52:45,460 and saying 1316 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:48,670 guys like wake up give us a campaign of 1317 00:52:53,940 --> 00:52:50,890 awareness and everyone who's susceptible 1318 00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:53,950 and exposed you know near kids should 1319 00:52:57,450 --> 00:52:55,839 have a boost unfortunately that's all 1320 00:53:00,329 --> 00:52:57,460 we've got time for I would encourage you 1321 00:53:01,950 --> 00:53:00,339 to go and look at rachels post and share 1322 00:53:04,770 --> 00:53:01,960 it you can find it on the homepage at 1323 00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:04,780 mamma mia com dot are you nine myths 1324 00:53:09,300 --> 00:53:06,790 about vaccination please share it with 1325 00:53:13,770 --> 00:53:09,310 everybody you know um thank you so much 1326 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:13,780 to my guests bronwyn Sam Simon and of 1327 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:23,609 I've actually had a loose have already 1328 00:53:31,050 --> 00:53:25,690 broken singer dr phoenix week have a 1329 00:53:33,240 --> 00:53:31,060 great one dr. rachel Dunlop is one of 1330 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:33,250 Australia's foremost media commentators 1331 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:35,410 in matters concerning so-called 1332 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:38,050 alternative medicine she has appeared on 1333 00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:40,570 national radio and national television 1334 00:53:48,089 --> 00:53:43,510 dr. H E is available for interviews and 1335 00:53:58,560 --> 00:53:48,099 you can contact her at Rachel at skeptic 1336 00:54:03,670 --> 00:54:01,870 have you heard about QED the exciting 1337 00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:03,680 skeptical conference 10th 11th of March 1338 00:54:09,340 --> 00:54:07,040 2012 quite exciting days you're probably 1339 00:54:11,530 --> 00:54:09,350 wondering why should i go to QED while 1340 00:54:13,330 --> 00:54:11,540 the existential dilemma will have the 1341 00:54:14,980 --> 00:54:13,340 investigator and legend joe nickell 1342 00:54:17,350 --> 00:54:14,990 quite extraordinary detective 1343 00:54:19,690 --> 00:54:17,360 alternative medicine expert absorb ernst 1344 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:19,700 quacks in Deward difficulties monsters 1345 00:54:24,730 --> 00:54:21,770 werewolves and lucid dreaming from debra 1346 00:54:27,820 --> 00:54:24,740 hi working theory demons Massimo 1347 00:54:29,950 --> 00:54:27,830 polidoro head of the intelligence questo 1348 00:54:32,260 --> 00:54:29,960 a garage auditory David a ran a 1349 00:54:34,870 --> 00:54:32,270 and conspiracy theory white evita books 1350 00:54:37,150 --> 00:54:34,880 secular campaign of Miriam namazi well 1351 00:54:38,620 --> 00:54:37,160 equality detractors Sarah angliss will 1352 00:54:41,070 --> 00:54:38,630 shows how to play the Federman with 1353 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:41,080 robots withering electronic devices 1354 00:54:45,010 --> 00:54:43,130 ufologist Ian ridpath with 1355 00:54:46,990 --> 00:54:45,020 extraterrestrial details the professor 1356 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:47,000 steve jones and why creationism is not 1357 00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:48,770 some quiet and evolution deniers odd 1358 00:54:52,930 --> 00:54:50,480 caster and spoon bender Richard Saunders 1359 00:54:54,610 --> 00:54:52,940 questions ESP demonstrations there are 1360 00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:54,620 filia Benson Queen existentialist 1361 00:54:58,660 --> 00:54:56,930 debater and we'll have comedy from Robin 1362 00:55:01,060 --> 00:54:58,670 Ince and gas quality entertainment 1363 00:55:02,860 --> 00:55:01,070 definitely tickets her 89 pounds in 1364 00:55:05,050 --> 00:55:02,870 there going fast so hurry queue 1365 00:55:08,410 --> 00:55:05,060 everybody directly would you cut that 1366 00:55:12,310 --> 00:55:08,420 out you can get your ticket from QED 1367 00:55:14,140 --> 00:55:12,320 calm dot org court event dome in marsh 1368 00:55:16,690 --> 00:55:14,150 seriously if you don't stop bang enough 1369 00:55:34,229 --> 00:55:16,700 to hurt quickly end discussion cogs QED 1370 00:55:40,900 --> 00:55:36,670 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1371 00:55:43,450 --> 00:55:40,910 zone now now over the coming few weeks I 1372 00:55:47,019 --> 00:55:43,460 will be are producing the skeptic zone 1373 00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:47,029 from the united states i'm off to sunny 1374 00:55:51,930 --> 00:55:49,849 San Francisco for a few days followed by 1375 00:55:55,359 --> 00:55:51,940 a trip to New Orleans where I'll be 1376 00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:55,369 attending the psych on the committee for 1377 00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:57,440 skeptical inquiry convention that should 1378 00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:00,079 be very exciting and I'm sure to grab 1379 00:56:04,329 --> 00:56:02,210 some great interviews and insights from 1380 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:04,339 very famous skeptics of that convention 1381 00:56:08,759 --> 00:56:07,130 and after that i'm heading to spend a 1382 00:56:13,450 --> 00:56:08,769 little bit of time with my good buddy 1383 00:56:16,469 --> 00:56:13,460 brian dunning from skip doy com where 1384 00:56:19,180 --> 00:56:16,479 he's promised to take me to death valley 1385 00:56:21,009 --> 00:56:19,190 he hasn't promised to take me back from 1386 00:56:24,579 --> 00:56:21,019 death valley but i'm sure will we'll 1387 00:56:27,249 --> 00:56:24,589 work something out now if i survive if I 1388 00:56:30,099 --> 00:56:27,259 knew survivor a trip to death valley 1389 00:56:34,329 --> 00:56:30,109 with brian dunning i will be speaking at 1390 00:56:37,209 --> 00:56:34,339 in the OC science & suds which called 1391 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:37,219 science & suds on saturday the fifth of 1392 00:56:44,739 --> 00:56:41,450 november at seven p.m. at the UC eyes 1393 00:56:46,299 --> 00:56:44,749 and hill pub and grill in the student 1394 00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:46,309 center i'm reading this off a website 1395 00:56:55,029 --> 00:56:51,609 folks for 200 campus drive irvine 1396 00:56:56,709 --> 00:56:55,039 california click here for the map or you 1397 00:56:58,739 --> 00:56:56,719 have to go to the website and click here 1398 00:57:01,120 --> 00:56:58,749 for the map yes i'll be giving a talk I 1399 00:57:02,829 --> 00:57:01,130 can't wait to be there I can't wait to 1400 00:57:04,539 --> 00:57:02,839 meet you if you can come along to that 1401 00:57:06,849 --> 00:57:04,549 event and the best way to find out more 1402 00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:06,859 it's on meetup the greater la skeptics 1403 00:57:13,029 --> 00:57:10,249 meetup group or you can google that or 1404 00:57:15,729 --> 00:57:13,039 Google Richard Saunders science & suds 1405 00:57:18,039 --> 00:57:15,739 or Richard Saunders OC public something 1406 00:57:20,709 --> 00:57:18,049 like that'll get you there so if you're 1407 00:57:22,989 --> 00:57:20,719 in that neck of the woods are and you're 1408 00:57:25,930 --> 00:57:22,999 free on Saturday the fifth of November I 1409 00:57:29,799 --> 00:57:25,940 hope I can meet you there so until next 1410 00:57:32,380 --> 00:57:29,809 week from from my travels this is 1411 00:57:36,940 --> 00:57:32,390 Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney 1412 00:57:44,359 --> 00:57:39,349 you've been listening to the skeptic 1413 00:57:48,140 --> 00:57:44,369 zone visit our website at www skeptics